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Neil....why so political?? It's beneath you.

Votegeorge 13 Nov 2003 10:29

What's with the bullshit agenda Neil? Has Indieintiative become a mouthpiece for your neo-political propaganda?

The George w bush bashing was not only unnessasary but full of distortions and innaccuracies....if your going to plagarise sources , ensure they are truthful and accurate at least.
Were you trying to score cred points from the Anti-West brigade? Or are you simply another paraphraser spouting retorical nonsense to appear clever?

At least 13 points made on that 'score sheet' were grossly innacurate and at least 3 were bare faced lies.
But lets not let the truth stand in the way of a good old fashioned roasting eh?
Not all indie musicians are blind left wing sheep Neil....

Shame on you.</title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div></title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div>


NeilWedd 13 Nov 2003 10:38

Because I found it amusing and frightening. Because the supposed democracy of the US was stolen by George Bush's brother.</title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div></title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div>


Votegeorge 13 Nov 2003 10:49

Absolute nonsense dear boy.

Sour grapes mixed with Leftist propaganda...and swallowed whole by gullible arm chair liberals who think the Age is highbrow reading.

Would you have preferred Al Gore as the U.S president who just happens to be married to Tipper Gore who created the PMRC ...remember them? They wish to censor all form of music that they deem 'innapropriate' ..with warning stickers etc...so much for freedom of speech.

The U.S voting system balances its tally per state population, hence even though the Democrats garnered more votes overall , the Republicans won more states..thus representing the Consitutional rights of each state representative who in turn are the senate representatives for the people.


Before spouting an opinion on an issue its best to actually know the details.



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Magi03 13 Nov 2003 12:14

"Before spouting an opinion on an issue its best to actually know the details. "

Yes it is. And you see to be lacking a few details yourself. A thorough examination of the US voting system will reveal that the Democrats amassed more votes either way you look at them, and legally won the election. Granted, a Democrat govt would not have made much difference to the good old USA, as a close look at Clintons records will show you, but that doesn't make Bush and co any less abhorrent.
The fact that politics are creeping more and more into the arts is a reflection on the universal horror at the Republican/American policies that any feeling human who cares about their planet, their children and the future feels.
Keep up the great work and the great articles Neil...
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Votegeorge 13 Nov 2003 12:36

Actually you seem have a misconprehension about the u.s voting system old boy.
The Republicans won more states therefore win goverment.
As each state is different in population size, this must be taken into account.
Constitutionally it would be unfair for New York and California to demand a form of goverment for every state simply because their population density is larger.I could recommened a book for you to read to brush up on your U.S constitutional laws and reforms if you like.
The Republicans won, get over it.
You're right though, the democrats would have more of a hash of things had Gore got in.
As you so rightly pointed out ,the Clinton administration not only failed to apply a cohesive and decisive foreign policy but actually started off the whole chain reaction by their in-action.

Of course my main point to begin with was and always is THE TRUTH.
Propaganda and distortions do not win my favour.
Of course we all care about our children and the future but I am not so naive to believe the answer lies in propagating lies and half truths.
Does this form of action make us any different from the very people we point the finger at? I think not.

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Tupelo 13 Nov 2003 12:41

Struth!</title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div></title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div>


Magi03 13 Nov 2003 13:58

Sorry, I believe my understanding of the electoral system in the US is correct - yes, I know it depends on the state vote, but the point is that it hinged on the Florida state, where like it or not, Gore had more votes.
The court decision to appoint Bush as president was taken by Bush's very own cronies. Even the most mad right wing bastards must surely concede that, at best, there was some slightly underhand goings on with the counts and the disqualifications of approximately 50,000 legitimate voters. A more neutral observer may look at the facts, and form the opinion that the election was stolen in a manner that would have appeared brazen even in Zimbabwe!
I'm not naive enough to think that getting rid of Bush and the Republicans would solve anything for anyone - at least with GWB we know what we're getting. Clinton charmed us on tv and then acted in pretty much the same manner as Bush behind our backs.
Yes the truth is the main issue, but truth can be a very subjective thing. However, it is certainly not true to say that Bush won the 2000 election fair and square.</title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div></title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div>


FunkyBill 13 Nov 2003 14:24

Blimey!</title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div></title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div>


Zoquo 13 Nov 2003 14:45

This is why I hate "political" music and all the crap that comes with it. I don't listen to music to have someone ram their opinions down my throat. Music is my escape from all that shit. If I wanted to have leftist propaganda thrown at me I would have turned on Triple J and listened to their "news". Come on guys, let's leave this site for the music. If you want to bump heads go to a political website. Rock on.</title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div></title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div>


Zeptepi 13 Nov 2003 15:05

Music, like all the arts, is shaped by the world around it. Peoples feelings and thus their creativity are shaped by their experience of the world around them. Politics, just like love, poverty, religion and drugs, is an integral part of the world and will always be apparent in music. Some of the greatest musicians of recent times have been outspoken in their political beliefs - Marley, Dylan, Lennon to name but three. So what is wrong with a healthy political debate on a music website forum?</title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div></title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div>


Votegeorge 13 Nov 2003 16:06

Because when a seemingly neutral musicians board is simply a front for the 'caretaker' to expound their own (borrowed) agendas then I have a problem with that.
It would be fine if it were simply a case of 'let's have a political discussion' ,but instead we find the music site does a hatchet job done on a political leader because they share a different perspective on the world.

I say , Neil get on with the music and keep running this valuable site but leave the hackneye'd sixth form politics at home.


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NeilWedd 13 Nov 2003 17:51

If I didn't voice my opinion about the state of the music business, would it change. If we hadn't spoken up in the past about the way things were run, nothing would change.
Music can be a force to change things. Music is tied up with politics. Music and film and the arts examine politics and throw up points of view.
This website reflects my views. I pay for it and I will push my agenda.
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Zoquo 13 Nov 2003 23:32

I have no problem with your views Neil, I respect everyone's opinion. It was directed more to the guys debating the merits of the US electoral system...that stuff has very little to do with this forum. Bush vs Gore - duelling banjos in Alabama is more appropriate. That I would pay to see.</title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div></title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div>


paulwither 14 Nov 2003 10:41

Checkout my post about Neil's agenda in

Classic Neil</title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div></title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div>


SilentHero 14 Nov 2003 12:11

So Keanu was 'the one' ?
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MrLoud 14 Nov 2003 13:36

AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH don't wreck it for me.</title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div></title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div>


Alias 14 Nov 2003 15:41

Zoquo, you have no fu^cken idea?

What's the problem with bands using political lyrics in order to stand up for important issues that they are passionate about?

Every band writes about different things. Some people probably hate the typical crap you guys write about.

Maybe if you actually listened to some of the lyrics out there you would think a bit differently.

This world is that fu^cked up because of people like George W Bush, and if bands can make a difference than that's more than you will ever do.

Just cause you choose to be ignorant doesn’t mean other people can't try and do some good.

What's wrong with trying to make this world a better place?

Get off your ass and open your eye's!
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FunkyBill 14 Nov 2003 16:11

I think the original point of this post has been lost, but it has raised another one.

Does politics have a place in music? Hell yes. BUT - it is propaganda at the end of the day. A band that has a huge following may write a song that tops the charts and has a message that defies truth, but try telling that to the impressionable youngsters that will pick up on the message and run with it, simply because that band are so cool and have really rock haircuts. In that sense, politics in music can be dangerous. (Off the topic a little bit - a few years back a uni student friend approached me to ask if I was going to take part in a protest march that afternoon. When I asked her what it was in protest to, she said... "I don't know... but it'l be fun!")

Anyway you see it, politics is life is politics. It divides people who would normally be undivided, and the fact that a healthy debate can take place is good, whether it be on this forum or otherwise. As musicians we should keep ears and eyes open and try to open the doors of perception as wide as possible. If politics is not your thing - sweet - don't read or write on this thread anymore - easy, but you are ultimately closing your mind to whats happening around you.

Just keep it civil hey?? Forums have this nasty habit of going septic when people get careless with their posts. Just because you can't see or know the person you are replying to, doesnt mean you can be rude to them.

Sorry for the rather verbose rant. I'll shut up now. Rock on.</title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div></title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div>


Zoquo 14 Nov 2003 16:23

Relax Alias, no need to get too excited. As for being able to determine that I have "No f...ng idea" from a couple of website posts - that makes you either psychic or ignorant. I am off my ass & my eyes are open. Was I defending George W Bush??? No. Maybe some people do hate the "typical crap" I write about. That's fine, but I'm not naive enough to think I can change the world by trotting out the same "the government sucks, corporations suck, peace for all" lines that have been doing the circuit since the 60s. I love the occaisions where I come across a band with something genuinely new to say. Unfortunately that is rare these days - too many bands with cookie-cutter social causes that they think will get them airplay on triple J. If you truly stand for people saying what they believe then you can let me have my say without resorting to the potty-mouth and ignorant assumptions.</title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div></title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div>


Zoquo 14 Nov 2003 16:26

Funky Bill, you are right on the money...that is where I was coming from.</title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div></title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div>


Alias 14 Nov 2003 16:43

Every band writes about different things.

Zoquo may think that political lyrics are Bullsh^it? That's fine that's their opinion.

But rather then personally ridicule bands that write political lyrics, why don't they tell us the sort of things they write about?

Your quick to take down bands that write political lyrics, but your a bit slow showing us all your own brilliant ideas.



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Spanky 15 Nov 2003 14:29

I agree with Zoquo.

Bands shouldn't be writing about political shit they should be writing more about relationships, parties, girls, cosmonauts, broken hearts, and love. Cause we need more music of that orientation. There really is a niche for any bands wishing to pursue that line.

It's all about the rock guys! God gave rock and roll to us all. Rock till ya drop.

Funnily enough we found a web site for a band called Zoquo who list their major influences as Radiohead, Tea Party, & U2. Luckily none of these bands have written a political tune.

Maybe we are drawing a long bow here. However if Mr Zoquo is involved with Zoquo the band and maintains that he doesn’t “listen to music to have someone ram their opinions down my throat” maybe you should have a good look at who your influences are?
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TheAnimal 15 Nov 2003 18:19

Rage Against The Machine. Hail this band for viewing the truth.
More bands should voice aloud.</title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div></title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div>


Zoquo 16 Nov 2003 22:35

Why Spanky, if I didn't know better I would think you were being sarcastic. Point taken. I do like the idea of writing some songs about broken hearts, relationships, girls and parties though. Any ideas? I can't find my Warrant and Poison CDs.</title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div></title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div>


Alias 17 Nov 2003 09:12

Hail to the thief Zoquo!</title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div></title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div>


Zeptepi 19 Nov 2003 11:18

This would seem like the ideal opportunity to promote my musical collaboration with Dubya.
Checkout Zeptepi vs George W. Bush at www.mp3.com.au/zeptepi ...</title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div></title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div>


Sukebe 24 Nov 2003 22:19

i read that more people actually voted for the american idol than for the president. that's shocking! i can't stand people who have political views and ramble on and on about it all, and they don't even vote. so i hope you are all avid voters. on the neil thing. you know, yeh yeh he does ok for the local industry (when it suits him). but i think if you want to have the view that you pay for this site / you can express your feelings, you should call it "neilsinitiative" cos i come here for music, not you.</title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div></title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div>


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