Indie Initiative Home Bands Articles Forum Resources Contact
Forum

The future of Beat

NeilWedd 5 Mar 2004 13:14

Ben Butler has written an interesting article about Beat. http://rocknerd.org/article.pl?sid=04/03/04/122250 for the details.
Discuss please.</title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div></title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div>


Arn70 8 Mar 2004 23:37

This topic seems to be a hot potato nobody wants to touch!!</title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div></title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div>


village 9 Mar 2004 08:56

I don't really care much for Beat but really like Mixdown and Inpress. I have met Nick Snelling before I think he could help Beat as the editor ( however big fuckin job ) funny how the dance section is about 1/4 the size of what it used to be. Maybe the dance writers took some of that GBH at two tribes and fell flat on their face at the Beat Office ? Roll Over DJ your spinning away...........................</title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div></title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div>


RoyceHawk 25 Mar 2004 11:03

Neil,

Lots of good points in the article. The impression for awhile has been that Beat is hard-wired via Furst into the marketing/advertising end at the expense of editorial relevance and quality. Impress seems less susceptible to this.

The point about The Laundry only being picked up on the web, and left right alone in street press is poignant.

Street press is for the most part pretty tame, but I really don't think the majority of stakeholders want honest and unbiased opinions. Bandbookers, except Trish I have noticed, are certainly not interested in something other than pre-digested, sycophantic feedback. Publicists, successful bands, managers and promoters exhibit the same disregard and antipathy for critical writing. Industry people generally want select local bands pushed through a rubber stamp process. Audience and readership are treated like a hopeless maw that sucks any old shit up and doesn't really discern the difference.

The fact is many local gigs are ordinary - Dan Kelly & Co. can be shit, You Am I has been ordinary for the last couple of years, The Pictures are mono-dimensional, Streetkid Vandal need to mature and vary their performances, Spiderbait can be gratingly monotonous (ie. Black Betty), Magic Dirt has bombed on stage plenty of times, Tex Perkins has become a clapped-out sook, Hoodoo Gurus/Persian Rugs haven't stepped up to the plate with truly new material, Freddie Negro and his shithouse bands are bewilderingly considered institutional (which is plain wrong) - one could go on and on.

Then there's all the lesser local band struggling as they do to get noticed, persisting with inept managers, getting underpaid or simply not paid at all, not to mention live venues keeping some bands in employment almost as if they are staff only because they're safe (ie. Hellhounds, Phil Para, The Pictures).

Disinformation and denial is clearly the general theme.

RH</title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div></title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div>


gigpig 25 Mar 2004 16:10

This isnt new! Street press are easily manipulated if you spend a few bucks with them .... Can't seem to understand the Beat v InPress vibe, they're pretty bloody similar, full of press releases and not very "arms length" from anything they write. Let's make sure we disclose that the INDIE INITIATIVE is sponsored by InPress too - and a great fucking concept too but 'associated' with inPress nonetheless.</title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div></title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div>


NeilWedd 25 Mar 2004 18:18

That would be because Inpress supply advertising for us free of charge. They allow me to write a review of bands and get a preview in every week.
The give Indie bands discount deals on advertising. I'm proud to be associated with Inpress.</title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div></title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div>


gigpig 25 Mar 2004 19:50

Absolutley Neil. My point is that this is a slagging of Beat thread and the fact that the II is associated with their only opposition is very relevant. All power to the Indie Initiative, InPress, Dangerfield, Revolver etc etc its a great concept and YOU should take full credit - I just feel that both papers are very similar in what they do and how they do it and I wonder if the reactions would be the same if it were InPress being slagged - Like Phil Tripp, very anti Rob Furst & Beat - but you gotta read between the lines, he's in bed with inPress.</title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div></title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div>


beachball 26 Mar 2004 08:42

Well said Royce!!! I must say I find it hard to give either BeatOff or InWank any credibility really, when was the last time anyone read a bad or objective review????????? It's pay to play and mind your manners.</title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div></title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div>


RoyceHawk 26 Mar 2004 10:07

I don't want my remarks to be construed as solely aimed at Beat. It's the industry cranks who are fucking everything up.

The point about II and its sponsors is very relevant.

I said that most stakeholders in the industry see the role of street press and music criticism as being the provision of fluffy, obsequious drivel applied religiously to 'their' weekly-lemmings - it's editorial sycophancy!

All street press plays this game. Beat is further down this road at present (at present). Occasionally Inpress is willing to slag off a band, give a bad review, but rarely. Besides, it's not about slagging off a band or being bitchy about a new single. It's about a decent, sincere and critical editorial treatment of music. One reason why mainstream music is so anaemic and inbred is that the industry can only cope with a 'yes man' policy on the part of the press.

Most of the time, interviews are fluffed up with dorothy dixers and reviews toe a commercially-focussed line. And issues like The Laundry BS - or the way we have a feigned shake-up in the local scene (Mihelakos to book Prince; Trish to book Greyhound; Snelling to write-up Beat; ex-Prince booker to book the Espy), but it's nothing more than a swapping round of the same bloody people, ie. proven industry faithfuls.

RH
</title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div></title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div>


NeilWedd 26 Mar 2004 11:10

There is a reason for employing the same old people. It's because they know what they are doing. The music business is a conservative business. A peope business. You want to work with people you can trust.
You need to feel that a booker will treat your band well, will pay them properly and that they will have a great show.</title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div></title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div>


beachball 27 Mar 2004 10:25

Well, you said it Neil, a conservative business, and the recycling of the same bookers is expressed in the conservatism of the entire scene, as the same tired bands clog the available gigs and street press. The circuit of pubs in St Kilda for example, only offers novelty to blow-ins and backpackers, not the hardcore longtime Melbourne music fan looking for original and dangerous rock'n'roll. Are you telling us the rock'n'roll scene in melbourne is short on aspiring promoters with brains, connections and savvy? Gimme a break. The personality cult of the booker is a joke, under which bands take home maybe 10 bucks per member for 2 hours of sweating their asses off, or where a 'deal' is reneged on, on the whim of some Yoda character who has sat listening to the gig from upstairs. Spare us the idealised crap about benevolent bookers - muso's have always been exploited, lucky to end the night with the price of a pizza in their pocket. You'll find me in the public bar waiting for the revolution.</title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div></title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div>


NeilWedd 27 Mar 2004 13:36

Bands live or die by the crowds they attract. If they can't pull a crowd then they don't get paid. Bookers have a difficult job, caught between trying to encourage new talent that may or may not pull a crowd and more experienced bands that the booker knows will work.
They have to make the venue work for the owner, which means bums on seats. People have absolutely no idea of the pressures involved.
Note that the Espy needed 3 people to replace Trish. Usually the annoyed muso is the one who doesn't succeed and a lot of the time its because they don't work hard or smart enough.</title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div></title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div>


Northerly 27 Mar 2004 17:37

I agree that recycling the same old bookers etc. is bringing the scene down. Beat and Inpress both need a revamp with some people who have their own opinions - not just asskissers riding on the flavour of the week. But alas, pubs and clubs employ bookers to get the people in and what booker wants to lose their job by hiring bands that either a) don't work to get a crowd or b) think the world owes them a gig. Venue management are reluctant to hire just any booker so they go with what they know. Everyone has to answer to someone higher up the ladder unfortunately.</title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div></title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div>


NeilWedd 27 Mar 2004 22:51

Why is a person who hasn't booked bands before going to do a better job than a person who knows what they are doing?
If you get your band into a position to get a good gig then you need to ensure you impress. If you do well you get another chance. If you fail its back to square one.</title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div></title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div>


RoyceHawk 29 Mar 2004 17:10

Onya Beachball!

I had no idea the take-home bread was so pitiful. I don't begrudge bookers getting paid a reasonable wage any more than any worker getting a fair wage. By the same token, if bands are playing for next to nothing, then they are entitled to expect a fairer playing field.

Yet, the playing field just seems to be so top-heavy, and slanted in favour of commerce.

The sum total of this is, ultimately, the music - look who's in favour: Jet, The Pictures, The Vines, Dan Kelly, Streetkid Vandal, sundry You Am I spin-offs and solo efforts, Spiderbait, Magic Dirt. Pretty tepid stuff really. Hardly ground-breaking. Perhaps the jury's still out on whether Streetkid Vandal can develop into more substance other than effete posing and rocker-scowling.

</title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div></title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div>


NeilWedd 29 Mar 2004 19:49

A new nickname. So do you feature bands nobody knows on Friday night and expect a crowd to turn up. You try to help new bands, hoping that they will catch the imagination and get going.</title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div></title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div>


beachball 30 Mar 2004 08:19

New bands is what it's all about!!! That's the scene, that's why it survives. Venues around the world from CBGB's to the Punters club all supported new talent, not the old school. And let's keep corporate-speak (work harder and smarter!?) the hell outta rock'n'roll!!</title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div></title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div>


RoyceHawk 30 Mar 2004 09:29

Yes a new nickname. Feels like Big Brother is keeping track - and I don't mean in the reality-TV sense.

Regardless, I stand by my points, and shoot the messenger for calling for the discussion in the first place.
</title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div></title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div>


NeilWedd 30 Mar 2004 10:09

Since when don't venues support new talent?
Sure we book proven commodities as headliners but new bands get support gigs all the time.
When bands prove that they have ability as a band and as a crowdpuller so they move up the ladder.
If venues don't make money then they can't put on new talent as there won't be a venue around.</title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div></title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div>


RoyceHawk 30 Mar 2004 10:57

The discussion has deterioirated into platitudinous territory; the self-evident point that venues need bands to play to the sound of the chiming cash register, otherwise the band wouldn't be there in the forst place.

I thought the topic was the music press, and the industry at large, very deliberately colouring music in a way that insulates the business end of music, which is often a way that is not as creative and vital as music should be (being an important cultural expression and high art).</title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div></title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div>


» Post A Reply

« Back to Topic List


II
Join The Indie Initiative Mailing List