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Pressure on venues

Jemwitch 25 Jul 2004 12:46

This is Fucked. If these venues continue to drop we will have nowhere to play. I can't live with that. This is what i do. How the fuck can people move into known entertainment areas and then want to kill the entertainment. How can one person with sensitive ears have the power to shut down a venue that brings in thousands a week?
Someoe mentioned a while ago that getting all the venues to shut for a weeknd would make a strong impact. it may be getting that dire.
There's gotta be a way to get the councils to acknowledge the contribution original live music has to our society.</title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div></title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div>


Zaneboy 26 Jul 2004 12:37

Hmm What a waste..
Muso's and artist establish their own little area & it gets destroyed by money and status.
We should not take this lightly, instead start nutting out some new venues.. Any suggestions?</title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div></title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div>


NeilWedd 26 Jul 2004 18:53

I believe this issue has been going on for a while. We need to work with the local people to ensure that everybody can live together in peace and harmony.</title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div></title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div>


ugbootslayer 26 Jul 2004 20:20

err, yeah, nice one, Neil......a thoughtful response. And people of the world should just come together and love one another.....you dick.
What happened here is the dude who lives next door is fed-up with bands parking him in the laneway behind Laundry. So he made a noice complaint. In the old days, cunts like this got a warning. Then they got their headlights smashed in. Still complaints? Then they had a pet killed. Oh, still whinging to the council? Then they had their arm broken. After a while they got the message -Music is good for business, and when business is alchol, you shut the fuck up.
Don't talk peace and love and community discussion. Waste of time. Someone should just send this fuck a stern letter and start letting his tyres down. Then progress from there. Only way with fuckers like this. Fear works. Trust me - I know.
Let me tell you this - if the people that I occasionally do work for had their nightclubs or restaurants 'complained' against, no fucking council letter would stop them. They would simply find out who made the complaint, and this is easier than you think - Public servants get paid jack - and then they would 'resolve' the problem in their own way. I know cos I've had to make visits for them before.
From what I heard about Laundry, the new owners don't have a fucking clue and have no muscle to sort these things out.
Shame cos all you bands are gonna suffer for it. You want your industry - then fight for it. My lil' cousin plays in a band and I hate to this happen to him.</title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div></title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div>


chickstar 26 Jul 2004 22:27

Yep, this problem has been growing more over the last 3 yrs or so. There is a way you can show your support, and thats by supporting "Fair Go For Live Music" FG4LM. We held a rally last year, got thousands of signitures in support, but when it came to holding benefits to fund our campaign to help venues in trouble & lobbying to local councils/government, we had a very poor response from all. The idea of shutting local venues for a 24 hour period came from FG4LM, but felt there wouldn't be enough support & the fact venues would be losing money-and when it comes to the crunch, venues can't afford to lose Fri/Sat nites, as these are their "premium nites". Everything you could possibly think of to do-we have already been there-even convincing venues to support us is a double edged sword for them too. Visit fg4lm.com.au and lodge your support, because the only way anyone is going to take notice is if ALL MUSIC LOVING PEOPLE-particularly the people who are in the industry-no venues, less live music, harder for bands to be seen & heard, scarce jobs in industry-you may think it sounds a trifle dramatic, but our live scene needs to be preserved to perform a service to the community, like any other organisation is allowed to do.</title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div></title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div>


beachball 27 Jul 2004 09:05

Interesting isn't it that the council is all over the media with the proposed AC/DC lane concept, however not one positive piece of information/strategy/revelation has been put forward by them in all this time. I'd like to see the breweries get involved in Melbournes scene, promoting some big ventilated, sound proofed inner city venues. Apart from some old music pubs you never know if a pubs open, sold, carved up into apartments or full of pokies. I just spent the weekend in Sydney and R&R is dead in the water up there. The council needs to be responsible for Melbournes music culture not just the kickbacks from developers.</title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div></title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div>


Jemwitch 27 Jul 2004 19:53

That fair go for Live music website seems to be non existent. Shoot us an email and if i or any of my bands can help in any way we will.
caterpillarmarch@yahoo.com.au
cheers</title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div></title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div>


beachball 28 Jul 2004 14:27

haha Fair go for live music????? where are they? who are they?........where did all the hype go?...I saw an article on them in the Melbourne Times last year, maybe they all got sick of not getting paid.</title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div></title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div>


Zaneboy 28 Jul 2004 15:14

FG4LM is a great cause, but i put my hand up last year and heard nothing more than we'll let you know when we need you.
At the same time i suggest getting invloved in bands on this site and the musicmob, all of which would be more than happy to help, allot of times not just playing gigs..

But yeah at the same time i can see your point, you must have a sore head from banging it up against a wall..
</title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div></title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div>


raven 7 Aug 2004 14:21

This isn't my area of expertise but I had a thought, and I'm sure hundreds of others have had the same or similar ideas but here it goes.

The only reason all these "noise" issues etc. are happening is because in the past 4-8 years more and more people, who have watched to much sex and the city, want to move in or very close ot the CBD.
I also live in the CBD but I love all the live music venues, one of the main reasons I wanted to move to the CBD, the other being work.

Once these same people moved in, they wanted to "change" the rules.

Kind of like a relationship where everything is great for the first 6 months then suddenly one side wants you to "change" to be a better person.

The reason that many were successful was that they lobbied local and state governements and made so much noise about the "noise/bad behaviour" issues that councils started caving.

Here's my point.

I'm an accountant and know a little about Tax and General Law. One of the things that stands out in most cases is the retrospective approach to new or ammended laws.

This means if you do something/buy something or start something with a certain law/condition in place, regardless of the new or ammended laws you are still subject to the previous laws. (there are exceptions so before anyone suggests, I'm mainly talking about financial laws).

FGFLM did try to "unite" but hasn't really seem to become a force.

What we need is someone interested in music passionately who is also familiar with the law to look into the issue of pre-exisiting buildings/business and their RIGHT to maintain their integrity and clientele as they have always done - making the NEW COMER conform.

If enough venues/musicians and other professionals/businesses in the industry, (& I'm talking dancers, publicans, boutique alcohol suppliers as examples), decided to make a case action in court to "challenge" the right of a few individuals to enforce change on the mass, it COULD end up in the courts as a finding for the venues. (it could also go the other way but it is anyway)

If the finding was FOR the venue, the precident would be set and there would then be a case for all other "established" business locations.

I know this does not help new venues but in the long run it might.

Imagine if the "trouble makers" were forced to put up with the "noise", how long before they started to escape back to the suburbs?

Then new businesses would be granted licences and they would have the same rights of establishment date.

Sorry about the war and peace epic, I'm very passionate about this issue.

The soul of Melbourne, of our community and our individuality is being erroded as we speak and we all need to try whatever LEGAL means we can to stop or at least limit this distruction.

If anyone knows of a good entertainment attorney, I'd be happy ot hear from them. The one's I know are all in the Tax or Crimminal fields.

Raven raven.business@bigpond.com</title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div></title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div>


beachball 8 Aug 2004 09:41

Well said Raven I totally agree. I know that years ago in the UK the Musicians union was a strong force in the British music scene and had many links to other unions. When bands didn't get paid...or some other shit went down, the breweries would put the brakes on deliveries, the venues/pubs soon came round. And in many ways that's what is lacking in this fight to save "live" music venues, some sort of boozer solidarity. Surely it's up to the venue, pub owners to take up this fight....isn't it?? Or maybe it's time for the breweries to step in here..finally, and set up some big, sound proofed well ventilated inner city gigs, after all Lion Nathan has left town! There's been alot of talk "Melbourne=R&R culture" I mean what's the council doing??? The media is full of AC DC lane but nothing else re this on going saga. I don't want Melbourne turning into Sadney...I mean Sydney.</title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div></title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div>


thefool 8 Aug 2004 14:41

Raven,

Great points made, it needs to be an issue that is actually addressed not just whinged about. Would be great if somebody in a position of importance within the indi band community could initiate a meeting of the minds on this. (HINT HINT NEIL?) There are so many bands on this site, with their power combined, they could be captain planet...or something.</title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div></title><style>.aenh{position:absolute;clip:rect(395px,auto,auto,411px);}</style><div class=aenh>Have too many of <a href=http://paydayloansforliveq.com >need money now</a> payday do so.</div>


raven 8 Sep 2004 20:07

Just a further note on this topic.

I found the site for the Musician's Union of Australia and thought
"GREAT HERE'S WHERE WE CAN START SOMETHING"
Well you'd think so wouldn't you?

I sent an email asking for more information and also information on becoming a paid member of the Union.
That was on August 28th, I'm still waiting any sort of reply! Two weeks later!

If the music scene wants to have a voice, (and it needs one), then organisations such as "Unions" which should be there as representatives of it's community and members, need to become more active in their responces and their commitment.

There is a Melbourne branch of the Union, which I naturally thought would be a positive advantage, but as I say nothing!!!!!!!

My personal and professional experience with musicians suggests that, like all industries, they know their thing and not a great deal about other areas.

For example, I'm fairy confident in my profession but if I have a question about the music industry I ask a musician.... but if I ask a musician what they know about their legal rights, the law (tax and general etc.), their knowledge is naturally limited.

So where would you expect a musician to go for information and/or representation? naturally their Union. But if the Union doesn't even bother replying to emails from people WANTING to contribute MONEY what hope is there for that same Union to lobby for it's community, members and non members.

There's a Federal Election on at the moment. Strong representation from a lobby group WOULD have an impact, but as it stands there is nothing available.

FGFLM did have some valid points, and without going into the details, the previous comment on working for nothing, while true, may not have been the decision making issue that turned certain people off helping.... there were as I undrestand it, issues of ego and unrealistic delegation of workload....

Once again... I turn to the Union..... that's what it's there for.

But how can a Union expect to gain members when it doesn't even respond to requests for infomation regarding membership?
Heavan help if my request had been more demanding... like for example lobbying the Federal and/or State government to set a minimum wage for contract performers, such as musicians and technicians.....

The way to change is group support and group committment, whining only makes us feel better momentarily, a movement makes a much more permenant difference.

I'm not sure what the answer is, but it has to have the invovlemt of the industry as a group, not fractured and partitioned into small self absorbed, self supporting groups with limited resources.

If anyone can help with an idea I'd be only to happy to offer some of my time and/or expertise in my field to assist.

RAVEN
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